Ryan McLean

6 Comments

  1. Richard I. Garber
    December 30, 2013 @ 1:42 am

    Ryan:

    I’m confused. Which students and what rubric are you talking about?

    In the U.S. the latest one by the National Communication Association is the Public Speaking Competence Rubric, which addresses both form and content. I blogged about it in July 2012:
    http://joyfulpublicspeaking.blogspot.com/2012/07/new-scale-rubric-for-evaluating.html
    Click on the rubrics label to see my earlier posts.

    The 2007 second edition of their NCA Comptent Speaker Evaluation Form covered eigtht competencies – four each about form and content. You can download their detailed publication about it here:
    http://www.natcom.org/uploadedFiles/Teaching_and_Learning/Assessment_Resources/PDF-Competent_Speaker_Speech_Evaluation_Form_2ndEd.pdf
    Richard

    Reply

    • Ryan
      December 30, 2013 @ 7:41 am

      Hey Richard,

      Thank you for you comment. I love extending the conversation and debating things like this as I believe that is very important.

      I still stand by what I say. The rubric discussed in your blog post only focuses on message in point #1 and the optional #11. I guess #9 could kind of be seen as a message measurement also.

      The problem I see is that we are trying to teach kids technique of public speaking without teaching them how to have something meaningful to say. I believe in order to be an effective public speaker you need to have lots of practice, but in order to practice you need to have lots of meaningful things to say. I do not believe technique is bad (in fact I believe it is extremely important).

      But I believe when we focus on technique before we focus on having something meaningful and worthwhile to say we stunt our students public speaking potential.

      The 2007 edition rubric is very similar to your blog post so I will comment on some other things:

      “The Competent Speaker Speech Evaluation Form was created to provide a statistically valid and reliable tool for the assessment of public speaking performance”

      This is fine for making competent speakers but often the best speeches can not be measured on their statistically valid assessment. They are effective because of their heart, and their message as well as their technique.

      The Competent Speaker was developed in 1990 by a subcommittee of the NCA Committee on Assessment and Testing”

      With communication changing at a rapid rate (everyone is on their phones now while people are speaking). How does a rubric from 1990 adjust for the changing audience habits and the changes we need to make as communicators to get our message across?

      Maybe in 2014 it will be more important to teach kids how to talk in front of a camera and upload it to YouTube than it will be to teach them to speak in front of their classmates.

      I am not 100% clear in the solution, I am simply trying to open up new ways of thinking so we can teach more people to be effective public speakers.

      I don’t know if that clarifies. Happy to hear more of your thoughts.

      Reply

  2. Richard I. Garber
    December 31, 2013 @ 9:22 am

    Ryan:

    I’m still confused since you didn’t bother to answer either of my questions about which rubric and what students you are talking about. Were you referring to something currently used in high schools or in universities? Was that in the whole world, Australia, just New South Wales, or where?

    The 2007 Competent Speaker Speech Evaluation Form refers to the following eight competencies. Four are about content: (1) Chooses and narrows a topic appropriately for the audience and occasion. (2) Communicates the thesis/specific purpose in a manner appropriate for the audience and occasion. (3) Provides supporting material (including electronic and non-electronic presentational aids) appropriate for the audience and occasion. (4) Uses an organizational pattern appropriate to the topic, audience, occasion, and purpose).

    Another four are about delivery (form). (5) Uses language appropriate to the audience and occasion. (6) Uses vocal variety in rate, pitch, and intensity (volume) to heighten and maintain interest appropriate to the audience and occasion. (7) Uses pronunciation, grammar, and articulation appropriate to the audience and occasion. (8) Uses physical behaviors that support the verbal message.

    They also are briefly discussed in a tri-fold pamphlet from the University of Colorado:
    http://www.uccs.edu/Documents/commcenter/8%20Competencies%20Pamphlet.pdf

    That pamphlet points out that the eight competencies originally came from Sherry Morreale back in 1990. The 2007 publication I pointed you to was the revised version of a 1993 publication. So, it came out two decades ago, and then was adjusted in response to changes.

    Richard

    Reply

    • Ryan
      January 2, 2014 @ 7:05 am

      I guess at the core of it I am questioning whether marking our students even makes them better public speakers. I was discussing rubric in general, no specific rubric.

      Reply

      • Aygun
        January 23, 2020 @ 4:56 pm

        So, how do you suggest to grade the students in a high school or undergraduate class? The grading is a requirement at my university.

        Reply

  3. Chema
    May 26, 2019 @ 7:02 am

    It’s been so long since this was posted that I’m not sure you’ll get to read it 🙂

    As a Toastmaster who has given a TEDx Talk, among many other types of talks at companies, NGOs, social events and competitions, I’d say there is one key element in which in my opinion you nailed it and one that I’d say requires reframing.

    That what makes TEDx talks so appealing is something that does not produce analytics and, thus, cannot be measured. I’m talking about inspiration, engagement, and insight generation.

    No manual in Toastmasters, no evaluation sheet, no method has the capacity to standardize growth in a field that is so connected to personal stories and the assimilation of learning in our minds.

    I, too, have had this discussion with Toastmasters who are usually older than me.

    But is that enough to say that TEDx is better than Toastmasters? Such a comparison is similar to saying that automobiles are better than wheels. Cars can take you to places, yes. But can you imagine how many mechanical tools that are not automobiles are based on the physical principles of wheels?

    You could say that TEDx talks on youtube are of a better quality than Toastmaster speeches on youtube. And you’d be right 99.9999% of the time. But you’d be right 100% of the time if you stated that Toastmaster speeches on youtube are much more in number than TEDx talks, and that is precisely why they can’t be compared. They have different purposes.

    TEDx focuses on spreading awesome ideas. That is, people who belong to the organization work together to organize an event while ensuring that the talk given has a superior quality.

    Toastmasters aims to help people develop their communication skills. That is, through a global/national/local organization, it supports the development of specific skills that are an objective benchmark of variables that increase the quality of spoken communication.

    Can Toastmasters produce quality speeches at the same rate and level as TEDx? not in a comparable way, no. It is not the organization’s purpose.

    Can looking at TEDx talks directly increase someone’s ability to improve as a public speaker more than Toastmasters? absolutely not. That is not what they aim to do.

    Conclusion: Though I do concede that Toastmasters has slightly failed in the academic process of teaching whatever can be standardized about engagement and awesomeness in speeches, by no means do these variables always play a fundamental role in the crafting of a critical spoken message. Quarterly reports to the board of directors, firing someone or debating are all instances in which one can only improve through the dissection of objective variables, rubrics, that, through practice, makes one more aware, more sensitive and thus slightly better as one continues to practice.

    Reply

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